What thing in nature makes more power than a Hellcat?

"The man in the iron mask" (Themanintheironmask) 08/14/2014 at 03:06 • Filed to: None

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A bolt of lightning.

Mattbob > The man in the iron mask 08/14/2014 at 07:20

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I would have to disagree. The lightning is the physical power, not what makes the power. The clouds are actually making the lightning. So a cloud makes more power than a Hellcat. I don't know why I'm being so pedantic this early in the morning.

Tentacle, Dutchman, drives French > The man in the iron mask 08/14/2014 at 07:50

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Niagara falls drops more than 168000 cubic meters of water over the brink every minute

Apparently, that's the equivalent of about 7000 Hellcats. (Close to 4.4 million kilowatts.)

Axial > Mattbob 08/14/2014 at 07:56

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Still incorrect. The clouds aren't converting matter into energy, the Sun is. All of the energy in Earth's weather and biological systems comes from the sun. All of it.

Mattbob > Axial 08/14/2014 at 07:59

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we aren't talking about energy, we are talking about power. Watts..... SCIENCE!!!

energy ->joules, power->watts.

here's some watts

Axial > Mattbob 08/14/2014 at 08:07

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Power is energy over time. IT'S SCIENCE, SUCK IT! :OOOOO

Mattbob > Axial 08/14/2014 at 08:28

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and..... so it is the use of energy, not the creation of it. Example, batteries don't create energy, they store it and release it over time, turning it into power. Engines take the energy in fuel and turn it into power at the crank.

The man in the iron mask > Tentacle, Dutchman, drives French 08/14/2014 at 13:14

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Yeah i also thought about dams.

Axial > Mattbob 08/14/2014 at 15:15

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Power is just a way of measuring the rate of energy transfer. That's it. The measurement is agnostic toward whether we are talking about an engine converting energy from fuel, your legs pedaling a bicycle, or the force of water destroying a city.

Mattbob > Axial 08/15/2014 at 07:29

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I disagree.

Axial > Mattbob 08/15/2014 at 08:43

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Can't disagree with facts, my friend.

Mattbob > Axial 08/15/2014 at 10:48

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it's semantics, and arguing semantics on the internet is just obnoxious.

Axial > Mattbob 08/15/2014 at 11:19

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But it's not...power is energy over time. That's it. That's the definition. There's nothing semantic about it. I poked fun at your attempt at pedantry, you tried to counter it seriously, and now you are losing the argument because I am an engineer and this stuff is what I do. :|

If you had said engines convert energy into motion, you might have had a chance. Instead you said power. Unfortunately for you, my friend, power is involved any time energy transferred.

So, once again, the clouds are not making the lightning; the clouds are merely a medium through which the sun's energy is applied. Ergo, weather is a demonstration of the sun's power.

Mattbob > Axial 08/15/2014 at 11:26

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delivering said energy over time is a process, right? A process which can be called "producing power." Producing power is a common term. Power plants produce power. It may be just converting energy, but it is still said to "produce power." Also, this is way off base from what I was getting at with my original statement. It's semantics either way. Btw, what kind of engineer are you? I'm an electrical engineer.

Axial > Mattbob 08/15/2014 at 11:51

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Yes, a power plant does indeed produce power! However, a cloud does not. On the contrary, the atmosphere (and the ground) is directly receiving power from the sun and channeling that power in various ways: i.e. a thunderstorm. Consider it like a light bulb in the circuit, where the sun is the battery. Where is the power really coming from in that arrangement? The bulb is "producing power" if you are just isolating your observations to that section, but the battery is also producing power and the battery is what powers the bulb. Because there is only a finite amount of energy in a system, and because the battery has all of it in the beginning, the battery is producing the power and the bulb is merely a way for us to measure what the battery is producing.

I am a systems engineer. Nice to meet you!

Mattbob > Axial 08/15/2014 at 11:57

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if energy conversion is power production, then a cloud converts heat->movement->static electricity(lightning).

also, the lightbulb is consuming electrical power and producing heat power. Watts in (I*V=P) and watts out (heat transfer over time + some photons). Much the same as a hydroelectric dam takes mechanical power and produces electrical power. It's all in your viewpoint.

Mechanical systems? software? electrical? Automotive industry? Always interesting to see all the engineers here on oppo. There are a lot of us.

Axial > Mattbob 08/15/2014 at 12:27

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Mmmm, not quite. That's capitalizing on a poor choice of words I made in the first reply way up there. Congratulations, you found an in! I later said power itself is just a measure of energy transfer, which is true, but the key word our conversation has been production .

This provides an excellent opportunity to get back to cars! The engine is the power-plant. However, you can't measure the output of the power-plant from the wheels and say the wheels are producing power, which is essentially the same thing as saying that the bulb and the clouds are producing power. They have produced nothing. Instead, they have simply applied existing power.

A hydroelectric isn't producing power. Rather, it is making power produced by moving water's kinetic energy useful. What really produced that power is gravity tugging at the water.

And I think that's really the heart of our conversation: you are considering power production to start where the power "produced" becomes useful, while I am taking it in more absolute terms, tracing it back to the point where work first comes into being.

Also, mechanical focus for systems. There are indeed tons of us on Oppo...I think all engineering minds are attracted to complex machines like automobiles. There's something for every discipline.

Mattbob > Axial 08/15/2014 at 12:50

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You keep using the definition of energy instead of power. It isn't power until it is being delivered essentially. It isn't producing energy, it's producing power which is energy over time. Converting energy from one for to another (energy transfer) over time is "producing power". That is essentially what I am saying. I know this isn't an exact definition and its a wiki but take a gander here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_pro…

Maybe a mechanical example will help. Heat is a type of power. Heat is specifically the transfer of energy. It is only when the energy is being transferred that it can be measured. Heat production happens when energy is transferred. A heater produces heat when it transfers energy out via radiation. Heat is power, not energy. The heater didn't make energy, it made power(heat).